You know that post about Dave Elms? Over the past few days, I noticed a few spikes in my site’s traffic coming from sites I’d never heard of. At some point, I clicked a few of the trackbacks, just to see what these sites were about, and discovered that they were review sites and the posts leading to my blog had to do with Dave Elms. What exactly, I don’t know — the posts were deleted by the site moderators before I had a chance to see them.
I figured I’d give these sites the benefit of the doubt. Maybe the posts were horribly offensive and the site moderators thought they would crack down on the rampant misogyny. It could happen.
Last night I saw another one of these sites sending a surge of traffic to my blog. This time I manage to see the post before it was deleted. It was extremely brief, mentioning only that I had written about Elms and it included a link. I shrugged, left the site, went off to brush my teeth, and decided to check again before I shut down for the night. When I did, I saw that the post had been deleted by moderators.
Why men give these sites any credence whatsoever is beyond me.
Here, I just want to repost Chicago Diva’s comment because it’s important:
Dave Elms is getting everything he deserves. He developed a site for reviewing the providers that started out cute and entertaining at first and turned into a huge opportunity to treat women like trash. I had several reviews up on TER and almost all of them where great. I had several clients tell me that they had submitted reviews to TER only to find out that they had been changed or totally erased. On many occasions I would post on the TER board to solicit new clients and would have negative post placed under it each and every time. One client tried to stick up for me and was banned and then TER accused us of self posting. I had no clue who this client was but negative rumors where spread that all the clients where comments from me. In addition all my reviews where removed from the site. I for one am sick of this site and the negative publicity it gives to providers for standing up for themselves. In addition, its even more sick and disgusting to know that this man has extorted sex from women to stay on the board. The other part is that women in the business need to stop letting guys like this gain so much power that we don’t control our own bodies and destinies. I feel men should not rely on this site for reviews and expectations for service, because many of the girls that have good reviews only have them because they have given away free sex to clients or the owners of TER. Please stop giving TER the power to control you business.
I couldn’t agree more.
wow. the whole thing sounds so orwellian.
Why men give these sites any credence whatsoever is beyond me.
Because we’re scared (a) of being grabbed in some sting and (b) of showing up, handing over a non-trivial amount of money and then getting a “oh, this is just for companionship, not sex. That would be illegal.”
I have no idea what deletions happen or sleazy off-site behavior Dave Elms may engage in, but most of what I’ve seen on TER is pretty respectful and pro-provider. 9 times out of 10 if there’s a very negative review it’s because of an overt rip-off or someone whose appearance was radically out of line with their photos. Sometimes there’s mediocre reviews that claim a provider seemed like she’d rather be anywhere else but there with them, but I personally have a hard time faulting someone for not being happy with that.
I certainly have sympathy for a girl who finds herself with someone and wishes she was anywhere else, but providing the fantasy is what the john is paying for, yeah? We’re all expected to put on the happy face if we want our customers to be happy with the service, whether it’s selling sex or shoes.
I’m bothered by what I hear about what a sleaze Elms is, but I’m not sure what the alternative is for men looking for paid sex. TER is the big source, and I don’t think it’s any more unreasonable for a john to want to check out a provider than it is for a provider to do some verification on a john. Providers can follow up on employment information and make calls. What, other than sites like TER, can johns do?
…and I don’t think it’s any more unreasonable for a john to want to check out a provider than it is for a provider to do some verification on a john.
I’m inclined to agree with you somewhat on that. It is a catch-22.
But I personally feel that review sites often go into too much detail, and I know this may seem a bit ironic, given the profession, I think it cheapens the relationship. Therefore, I specifically prohibit reviews of me or my performance on such sites. I don’t care if someone summarizes what we did on a blog or some personal site, but sites like TER and whatnot give me the creeps, over and above what Elms has done.
The reality is that the provider has far more to lose by not verifying a client than the other way around. You might lose some money, but we run the risk of losing our freedom, livelihood, and even our lives if we don’t verify identities of clients.
It’s only fair that we should hear from a john’s perspective, but let me add my own, as a former escort who was reviewed on TER.
I have no problems with reviews, per se. I’m a consumer, and I like to do my research before committing to a purchase. When I dine out, I consult with yelp.com. When I’m about to book a vacation, I use tripadvisor.com to conduct my due diligence.
The problem with review boards is that, unlike Trip Advisor or Yelp, a prostitute who is trashed in a review doesn’t have much in the way of recourse. It’s his word against hers, and the “bros before hos” mentality that prevails on most, if not all, review boards in the United States means that a prostitute’s word is almost always discounted. Think the threat of a negative review isn’t used as a bargaining chip? Think again. I’ve had spurned clients write negative reviews to get back at me because I didn’t want to date them in my personal life, and I’ve been e-mailed by individuals who have threatened to write a negative review unless I granted them a free session.
Another problem is the way that review boards, TER in particular, have been used to promote risky sexual behavior. According to TER’s rating system, the maximum score a prostitute can earn for performance is a 7, unless she is willing to engage in (1) french kissing/kissing with tongues (2) anal sex (3) bareback blowjob aka blowjob without a condom (4) “more than one guy at a time”, or a combination thereof. Thus, if a prostitute wants to be a ten, she must place client desires over her own sexual safety. I have known of women who have chosen to offer anal sex and swallowing to improve their TER score and increase new client inquiries.
Prostitution isn’t akin to buying a new laptop or getting a meal at a restaurant. In those settings, I think it’s reasonable to expect standardization in service. In sexual service, there’s going to be a great deal of variation in what one can expect, particularly given a client’s behavior. For example, a prostitute faced with a physically rough client who is dismissive of her boundaries has a right to decline anal sex, given that the likelihood of painful bodily injury is very high. Similarly, a client who presents himself unwashed and unshaved – and it’s appalling just how many men haven’t a modicum of proper hygiene – really shouldn’t be surprised when the ultimate girlfriend experience eludes him.
The last point I’d like to make is how many reviews are pure fabrications. I think I had a total of seven or eight reviews. I had to have four reviews taken down, because they were submitted by men I’d never met. TER encourages false reviews because each review submitted counts for 2 weeks of free membership, but even so, there was a great deal of exaggeration in the reviews from men I actually had seen. Why, I couldn’t say. I have never been inside a men’s locker room, but I imagine the banter is similar to what takes place on review boards. It’s an alpha male competition, and if that means lying about what happened with an escort, so be it.
I do understand why men give these sites credence, but what I don’t understand is how many men pay for subscriptions to sites like TER and never, ever submit a review. If you ask them, they turn red and start stammering “Oh, well I don’t do that”. I really don’t get it. As any market researcher would agree, the sample base is totally skewed in favor of “hobbyists” (that’s the polite term for sex addict who is obsessed with prostitutes, who is hardened and cynical, and hardly represents the mean).
Yuck.
Oh, and I forgot to mentiom that I have two ideas about why the posts linking to your blog are vanishing:
(1) The status quo. A lot of review board moderators and moderators are guilty of the same antics as D. Elms. Whores must be kept in their place.
(2).These hobbyists are so in the know that they don’t want you to know about it! A number of secret, under the radar boards exist that have splintered off from the main review boards, consisting of diehard, dedicated *cough*cough* hobbyists. They’re obsessed with secrecy (their own, anyway). It’s a kind of “The first rule of the Fight Club is…” phenomenon at work.
Escort review sites are usually really helpful, but sometimes they can actually do more harm than good. This guy sounds like a real anus – you should just avoid his site all together. There are many others besides TER.
There are many other review board sites. Unfortunately, many of them are even more virulenty misogynistic than TER. SF Redbook and Utopia Guide, just to name two.
No other site has the market share and reach of TER. Just look at the Alexa ratings. I’d be curious to see what the newly launched Google Ad Planner service reveals about the site.
The point is, it’s not so simple as just going somewhere else. For many escorts, TER is it.
I’m in agreement with Just some dude… TER provides a useful service for johns, primarily in telling providers from police and spammers. Aside from TER and Craigslist (which is mostly spammers these days), how else would you find a provider? A random website you find through Google could be posted by anyone. Ironically, TER has legitimacy, because of its presence in the news, and the diversity of writing styles in the reviews.
But I’ve been disturbed by the postings about Elms’ behavior I’ve seen this week, and you’re right about too much detail in the reviews. But what are the alternatives?
The only alternative I could think of is encouraging review boards with a different culture. A culture of mutual respect and understanding, as opposed to rampant mysoginism so often present and perpetuated.
I’ve seen this happen in my city on a local board. There is still a guys-only section, so they do have an avenue for the locker-room talk; but everything that is public has been extremely provider-friendly and as fair to all participants as possible.
This, like any change, can only happen with the right leadership.
I’ve stayed away from review sites so far, but I consider my personal expierence to be a very lucky one. These sites are probably where I’m going to end up if I don’t keep my current clientelle.
Bree – Well, trashy as it sounds, sites like craigslist are actually a great way to bring in buisness – even higher end stuff over $400 an hour. But you’re right, TER is the biggest of the sites. But Utopia is pretty big too.
Systems tend to self-correct over time but it takes people with self respect and fortitude (such as yourself Debauchette) to point out the flaws so it can improve. As a male I am disappointed but not wholly unsurprised by the opportunists who would attempt to use the system to their own ends. In business I have been too often been taken advantage of, but over time have found that perseverance and alertness always trump those who are schemers.
A peer system such as mentioned by Thais where mutual respect and understanding are core values would be in everyone’s best interests. However, the very nature of the business lends itself to an air of the forbidden…a big part of it’s allure but also makes it awkward to “regulate”.
Dave’s extortion of sexual favors is pretty common among review sites — at least where there is one person known to run it. It reminds me of the old BigDoggie with “Charles” and the requirements for making it to the the top of his “list”. The new Doggie (post Operation Flea Collar) doesn’t have anyone associated with it. In fact, the ownership is secret and buried under layers of foreign corporations.
One other point, Utopia Guide has been remarkably free of claims of favoritism — maybe it is because the basic gestalt of the board is one of equal opportunity misogyny. Although IMO that perceived misogyny is really just a NYC attitude.
Being a Los Angeleno girl, this is all I hear about these days. There are miles of posts on boards here full of jokes, banter and speculation, esp. since the story in the Times came out. It only leads to one thing. More publicity and membership for TER, I said in on forum, “How about not writing and talking about it, that would hurt membership sales.” Whether Mr. Elms runs it or someone else I highly doubt TER will fall. But consider Karma is a bitch and what goes around comes around, Mr. Elms is not excluded.
I for one didn’t know there was that much grime behind TER. I usually read the reviews and stay away from the boards, have better things to do with my time.
But like more than one commentor, I need to know what is a possible sting and what is not. That is my number one reason for being on the site and in addition to that; I want to know who is a good provider or not. Of course you have now pointed out fake reviews but when it comes to getting an escort its caveat emptor. A girl may advertise GFE but give you the total opposite, so we would rather read reviews and save our time and money.
Now if only a credible and balanced site could begin……..